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truth behind Eurogamer's NG2 vs NGS2
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Ryu
Picture of xino
posted
Eurogamer's words and article maybe reliable and resourceful, but sometimes their words are written to steer up a fight! Especially when it comes down to console wars and controversy in games.

I will be talking about their article they wrote about Ninja Gaiden 2 vs Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 graphical comparison.


First of all, they talk about the bullcrap of Xbox 360's and PS3's engine and processing power. Firstly, all bullsh*! Unless you are a game developer or you've developed a game for both system, you'll clearly have experience on which console has a better performance in terms of GPU, engine etc.


What I want to make clear is: Ninja Gaiden 2 was made hardcoded to the Xbox 360 because Itagaki knew Tecmo might want to port NG2 to PS3, so this direction was made.
Team NINJA had a difficult time trying to port NG2 to the PS3. They had to upgrade the Sigma engine, so that NG2 can be ported to the PS3 which is called Hybrid (says wikipedia O_o). A mixture of Ninja Gaiden Sigma engine and NG2.
With the success of the Hybrid Engine, porting NG2 to PS3 was possible.

Now listen CAREFULLY.
Just because NG2 can be ported to the PS3, DOESN'T mean everything NG2 can do, can also be done onto the PS3.


If you look at Ninja Gaiden Sigma port, yes it was ported from Ninja Gaiden Black. But because of NGB was on a 6th console, we can clearly see the faulty results in NGS. The game freezes during the maps, slow downs when so much is going on screen such as explosions and effects etc But in the end, it was playable and reasonable! The Sigma Engine just made Ninja Gaiden Sigma look like a Next Gen game...nothing more. Just basically a 6th gen game running on a Next Gen platform (7th gen console).


Now that is out of the way.

XBOX 360 VERSION


PS3 VERSION




The reasons why NGS2 had so few enemies on screen was because Team NINJA were trying to put logic to NGS2, so it wouldn't feel to unrealistic.
Previous teams who created Ninja Gaiden 2 originally (Itagaki's team). Rushed Ninja Gaiden 2, that some stuff in the game were so senseless.

If you compare Ninja Gaiden 1 and Ninja Gaiden 2's quality, you'll clearly see that NG2 is definitely a step back!

*Ryu has a limit of swimming inside water, thus giving you a breathing bar meter (in Ninja Gaiden 1). But in NG2, you have none, this game was rushed, the developers didn't even have time to include it.
*Dropping from a high platform will result in death (after killing the Bone Dragon). Yet in NG2, if you drop down from 20 stories building and landed on a ground, you wouldn't die (worm cave). Tell me, does that makes sense???


Now that the detail about realism is out of the way.

If you look at those two images above, you can see so many enemies on screen for the Xbox 360.
Now in reality, try to use your brain. If there were so many Lycans in a small throne room, would they be able to move??? Yes they wouldn't be able to move.
So NGS2's version makes sense and is realistic!



The most obvious thing to note is that the Xbox 360 game is capable of throwing far more enemies at you, though there can be a performance penalty. Ninja Gaiden 2 revels in throwing seven or eight opponents at you at any given point (though it can go higher) while the PS3 game is more strictly limited to six or fewer in the same situations. The original 360 code doesn't hold back in the amount of cut-off limbs that pile up, while on PS3 those same appendages disappear almost instantly. Left-behind blood stains on the scenery are also noticeably pared down.
Once again, Eurogamer trying to defend Xbox 360's inferior version.

THINK ABOUT THIS!
NG2- standard quality graphics, realtime effects
NGS2- Better graphics, higher polygons, better lighting, realtime lighting, 60fps, realtime effects

COST OF SLOWDOWNS
*tons of bodyparts on screen
*10+ enemies on screen at once
*multiple effects at once such as explosions.

Now tell me, if PS3 could produce better quality in graphics, don't you think it will be able to produce the same quality the 360 version as in bodyparts on screen, 10 enemies on screen at once etc? I mean the whole point of us complaining was NG2 had ridiculous slow downs, and they were caused by those 3 facts I pointed out above. If NGS2 has the same graphical standard quality of the Xbox 360, it would still be able to run 10 enemies on screen, thus will have tons of slow downs just like the Xbox 360!

Now that Team NINJA, sorted out the problems that caused slow downs but improved the graphical quality, in the end people still complain! I didn't know that gamers love playing a broken game (NG2!)



As you can see in this performance analysis video, the result is that while the Xbox 360 game can be seen to be far "busier" if you really work to stress the engine, the PS3 version still manages to keep up and even maintain an overall smoother performance thanks to the compromises the Sigma team has made.Once again digital foundry and Eurogamer defending the XBox 360.
If you have played Uncharted 2. Look at the Anisotropic_filtering, all loaded at once, no game I've ever played that can display a far distant of the map. Yet still the game has no loading at all! Game loads internally and during cutscenes! If PS3 can produce a game like Uncharted 2, don't you think the PS3 would surpass Xbox 360's version of enemies on screen if Team NINJA were aided by Sony?



XBOX 360 VERSION


PS3 VERSION


Once again, Xbox 360's exaggerated version and unrealistic version. But I must be honest that the PS3 does have too little fiends to be made as sacrifices.



XBOX 360'S VERSION


PS3'S VERSION


Where the game directors have total control of the engine's polygon budget, we get to see the in-game engine at its very best, pumping out some insane levels of detail on Xbox 360. You can see that Team Ninja cut back where possible on PS3, and also introduced a v-synced 30FPS frame limit, whereas the 360 equivalents run without a limit (often running much slower than 60FPS).
ONCE AGAIN! Just because NS2 could be ported to the PS3 doesn't mean the results will be exactly the same as the Xbox 360's version. You've seen the results of Ninja Gaiden Sigma, and it wasn't exactly like Ninja Gaiden Black.

I mean don't you think there is something going on here?
NG2- 60FPS Cutscenes, -30fps gameplay
NGS2- 30FPS Cutscenes, 60fps gameplay
:/
If the 360's version is so good, why can't it run the gameplay in 60fps?
Like I said before, Team NINJA managed to port the game to the PS3 version, somethings were not possible.



Ok this two image comparison is really what drove me to write this article after watching the PS3 version in motion and 360's version in motion too.
XBOX 360'S VERSION


PS3'S VERSION


Scenes with additional overdraw due to alpha effects such as explosions, also blatantly remove polygons in the Sigma edition in order to maintain frame-rate.

Complete Bull!
From the looks of these two comparison images, it clearly shows the PS3 as the inferior version.
But don't judge a game by images, judge it by videos (better yet HQ Videos).

In the Xbox 360's version, when Sonia kept firing missiles at the Lycans, only a few seats were emptied!
But in the PS3's version, you'll see a lot of seats were emptied. This is a way to tackle the realism! Obviously if you fire a rocket at someone, they'll blow up and disappear. This is obviously the PS3's version.
I mean Team NINJA tried to make it realistic. There can't possibly be Lycans seating in every seats in the Colosseum.
Second, when the Lycans entered the battlefield to confront Ryu, obviously their seats should be emptied!
And third, when Sonia fires at the Lycan, obviously she's trying to kill them off, not for distraction so Ryu could escape. Who said that Ryu needed help from fighting all Lycans? Sonia saw that was the best chance to get rid of all the Lycans.



Once again Eurogamer, Nice try but you fail!
 
Posts: 1947 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ayane
Picture of XmnMetal
posted Hide Post
I agree the Eurogamer article came across like a defending the 360 piece, and was guessing on how the PS3 version of the game was put together. Sigma 2 looks stunning to me. Team Ninja really outdid themselves ( I got the collectors edtion ) With the first sigma I disagree, I thought it was an awesome game and did not have any tech issues. It just proves how ahead of the times the first ninja gaiden was. Last, most of these comparisons I take with a grain of salt its usually people who don't know what their talking about or use false specs/guess work.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: December 17, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
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comparing systems never works, each console has it's advantages and disadvantages.

but for NG, PS3 kind of wins

I watched a few videos of xbox NG2 gameplay, and I'd like to try playing with all the gore, but I'd hate slowdowns, and I know what slowdowns do to you, you can't execute the proper combos. (online lag)

I never noticed that there were so little of the fiends on screen. :|

none of them is perfect, xbox got too many enemies and gore, PS3 got too little enemies and gore.

I rather play the PS3 version
 
Posts: 298 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
posted Hide Post
and the reason why PS3's version has little enemies throw at you was to make it more sensible and enjoyable.

In NG2, the game was so linear and rushed, Itagaki's team just kept spawning enemies at you every single corner of the map! It was just ridiculous.

But in NGS2, obviously there can't be every enemy hiding in every corner of the map.

NG2 just did this because the game was linear, they didn't want the player to feel bored. So enemies are always spawning at you constantly to keep the action flowing.
 
Posts: 1947 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Kokoro
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x2 @ comparing systems never works, each console has it's advantages and disadvantages

I'd say Tecmo did a good job porting NG2 to PS3. i hope u guys don't mix my "good" as "great" lol

do u have a link of the eurogamer article?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OmegaFlip,
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: December 17, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 1947 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
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Yet again, Xbox lovers show how dumb they are. I have played both versions of the game and out of them both I prefer the PS3 version; while it didn't have multiple enemies (like the staircase scene in South America) I still enjoyed the battles because the enemies, while fewer, were tougher and this made my victories more sweeter. Also the lighting in the PS3 are much better, the metal objects in the game have a much better luster while the 360 made everything look dull.
 
Posts: 68 | Registered: November 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Kokoro
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i just read the article and i thought they did a good job on their researched towards the comparison of both version.

side note, the article wasn't even bias towards the 360.
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: December 17, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OmegaFlip:
i just read the article and i thought they did a good job on their researched towards the comparison of both version.

side note, the article wasn't even bias towards the 360.
yes the first time I read it, I thought it was ok, but their words seems biased and some chosen images that were mind bugging .

But if you read it again, play both versions yourself and understand the reason for a bad game designing. You'll clearly know they backed up the 360 version a lot!
I mean the 360 is a bad game design no joke about it, yet they picked all the good bits to rival the 100% complete PS3 version. Don't you think that's being biased???
And this game scored 8/9 out of 10 from fanboy sites without mentioning the glitches, freezes and bugs, bullsh*!


I mean you are telling me NG2 on 360 uses good light blooming, when it only does in 2 or 3 bits in the game. While the PS3 uses light blooming a lot through out the game. Now get this, I'll be stupid and say 360 version does uses bloom effects and pick the only bits bloom effect were used. Am I baised or not?

This is exactly what Digital Foundry did.
The only thing I can give credit towards their work is the video frame per second comparison.


If you agree with the article, you'll say:
polygons>real time lightening, better textures, 60fps, more bump mapping

Because if you can put polygons to a good use, then you should also be able to add real time lightening, better textures, 60fp, bump mapping to a good use as well (one of them even though it can't be all of them).

I've played games with so many enemies on screen at once or with insane details yet it gets no bad bugs like NG2.
If you think about it, it's like NG2 can't do all the things NGS2 could do, all it is capable off is putting so many enemies on screen that gives the game bad bugs and glitches.
 
Posts: 1947 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Kokoro
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i get your point. tho, sounds like you're a lil offended bout the comparison. i still don't think the article is biased.

if you think about it this way, if team ninja were to make NG2 for 360 like NGS2 then with all those raw data will not fit in a DVD disc. they have to compensate something (compressing polygons, lighting etc for rendition). You might think it's biase coz the article is implying that the 360 version and team ninja did a helluva job with the graphics. And they did a great job with the graphics to fit everything in the disc with a total of 6gb. I bet you that NGS2 is not using all 25gb bluray disc space (which is kind of sad). Anyways, there's a possibility that the original version was suppose to look like NGS2 however due it's rendition datas they have to downgraded and that's how NG2's graphics is now. Plus,it only took them almost a year to develop NGS2.

I've played both version and I prefer to play the PS3 coz of the tweaks/upgrade they've done.
I hope you're a gamer that puts gamplay first when rating a game not judging by it's graphics.

i can break down bits and pieces for you on how and why team ninja went on that direction towards there graphics in NG2 and same goes for NGS2. but i really don't want to waste my time explaining it besides eurogamer is there for you. i'd say think outside the box not inside the box.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OmegaFlip,
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: December 17, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
posted Hide Post
basically you are defending the 360 version, you know why? because:

if you think about it this way, if team ninja were to make NG2 for 360 like NGS2 then with all those raw data will not fit in a DVD disc. they have to compensate something (compressing polygons, lighting etc for rendition).Have you played Gears of War? Have you seen how Splinter Cell Conviction looks? so this is not an excuse for compensation will be made for 360 version because it's on disc. Compensation are only made on Multiplatform games, because PS3 always look half @ssed and 360 is always at it's maxium peak, basically the disc space is all used up.

You might think it's biase coz the article is implying that the 360 version and team ninja did a helluva job with the graphics. And they did a great job with the graphics to fit everything in the disc with a total of 6gb.Once again, you are defending the 360's version. Have you played Ninja Gaiden Black? That game still looks amazing! Half of the stuff in NG2 doesn't even look stunning like NG1, even some reviews stated how dull looking some environments looks like in NG2. Let me guess, they filled up the 6gb space with polygons? (because that's all Digital Foundry talks about all the time)

I bet you that NGS2 is not using all 25gb bluray disc space (which is kind of sad). Anyways, there's a possibility that the original version was suppose to look like NGS2 however due it's rendition datas they have to downgraded and that's how NG2's graphics is now. Plus,it only took them almost a year to develop NGS2. How is that sad? nearly every PS3 games doesn't even use up all the spaces. I wonder how much space Uncharted 2 uses up on disc. And no there weren't any possibility that NG2 was supposed to look like NGS2. Don't try it mate. NGS2 uses the Hybrid engine, in form of Sigma engine+NG2. NG2 can and will never look like NGSigma or NGS2 because it isn't using the same engine as both games. And about the rendition datas reduced, take a look at the GDC and E3 official videos and picture footage of this game. You'll notice those Hi-Res images has no anti-aliasing and all the outcomes looks so crisp, vibrant, sharp and nice. Look at the GDC video of NG2, you can see the game has more blood than to the final version.

I hope you're a gamer that puts gamplay first when rating a game not judging by it's graphics.
Yes I put gameplay first, but I love graphicsSmiler
And the problem isn't the graphics, it's the glitches and slow-downs! Team NINJA manages to fix these problems and still made NGS2 look nice. NG2 would have looked better than it's final outcome if the game wasn't rushed and focused on blood+enemies on screen.


i can break down bits and pieces for you on how and why team ninja went on that direction towards there graphics in NG2 and same goes for NGS2. No please do because I want to know.
and it better not be opinions or thoughts.
 
Posts: 1947 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ayane
Picture of XmnMetal
posted Hide Post
I agree with xino the whole story was trying to make excuses for the 360. Games today are the whole package if this wasn't so then we would all still be playing the NES. remember technology drives gameplay as well as software. Graphics are important in drawing us in the game world. Even in the early days graphics were important.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: December 17, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Christie
Picture of fenrir72
posted Hide Post
NG2Sigma is a better fleshed out version from the original. Superior? Well this argument will never end. For me? I prefer the PS3 version with all the added features.

Differences? This is expected from different hardwares, no problem here.

The author of the article is just killing a dead horse.


 
Posts: 100 | Location: S.E.A. | Registered: July 25, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by xino:

I bet you that NGS2 is not using all 25gb bluray disc space (which is kind of sad). Anyways, there's a possibility that the original version was suppose to look like NGS2 however due it's rendition datas they have to downgraded and that's how NG2's graphics is now. Plus,it only took them almost a year to develop NGS2. How is that sad? nearly every PS3 games doesn't even use up all the spaces. I wonder how much space Uncharted 2 uses up on disc.


It's been reported and confirmed that Uncharted 2 fills up 25GB of Blu-ray Space which is one single layer of the blu-ray disc.

God of War 3 which actually looks far better to a degree to Uncharted 2 actually uses 35GB of Blu-ray Space.
 
Posts: 302 | Registered: September 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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