Ok here's a familiar and known debate: (since this NG forum is sort of dying little by little)
It's about the fight between Ryu and Doku's first encounter at the Hayabusa village.
As you can tell from the CG movie. Doku struck Ryu twice, first on his belly (if you pause the video when Ryu was surprised, you'll see a blood splash by his mouth) and second around his back. When Ryu falls to the ground, an electric appeared around his back.
Ninja Gaiden 1 CG cutscene

So the debate are these: Did Doku kill Ryu? Was Ryu resurrected by the falcon bird? Doku merely defeated Ryu?
Though there are two versions of these- In the original version Ninja Gaiden/Black, has the CG. But in Ninja Gaiden Sigma, they tried to make it more understandable yet still didn't make sense. Even though you beat Doku, you'll still get defeated, but Sigma doesn't show anything that Doku killed Ryu but merely defeated him.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma version


Well to my own theory about this. I think Doku did kill Ryu, but the Dragon Sword protected Ryu from the curse of the Dark Dragon that struck Ryu. Since no one can use the Dragon Sword to it's full strength only the Hayabusa clan. Dragon Sword and Dragon Lineage are connected to each other and Ryu has dragon lineage blood inside him. So therefore the Dragon Sword is bound to protect Ryu from harmful destruction to his body.
But one thing that doesn't make sense is that Ryu is still holding the sword and he didn't stealth back his sword. Unless it's because he's still holding the Dragon Sword.



As for the bird, falcon bird has nothing to do with resurrecting Ryu. Falcon bird is just a tool to the NG Story. I really don't know how to explain it, but it's a thing that's always so important to a story. It's like a phone box in Superman, if they made a movie about Superman. And they keep showing shoots of phoneboxs around Clark Kent, the phonebox is just an important item. Until finally you see Clark Kent use the phone box to call someone important, or use it to transform into Superman.
So that is basically what the bird is there for, bird is just there to observe so many incidents that has happened in the Hayabusa village. Also you see the bird fly at the end, that's just to show that the incident that happened is finally over.

So it leaves it that bird had nothing to do with Ryu still being alive, since the Dragon Sword bound to his blood already protected him from the harm of the Dark Dragon Blade. He's wound just healed overnight. Or we could also debate that Murai healed Ryu???


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Here's another important discussion!

It's about Doku defeating Ryu using the Dark Dragon Blade.
Do you think Ryu would still be able to defeat Doku the second time if Doku used the Dark Dragon Blade rather than the Kitsetsu?



To me, I'm not really sure on this. I mean it's not about skills or experience Ryu gained throughout his journey. Since he used the Dragon Sword throughout, gameplay doesn't matter but cutscenes states the facts.



Your thoughts?

Question:
Who Ryu be able to defeat Doku if Doku was using the Dark Dragon Blade instead of Kitsetsu?

Choices:
Ryu would win since he knows how Doku fights
Doku will win again because the Dark Dragon Blade makes him invinicible

 

The falcon is a cinematic device (same thing like literary device but when refering to movies) and superman/phone book was bad example lol

I remeber in the story that they mention the dark dragon sword was growing stronger so it might've just been that it hadn't reach spontatious combustion power levels yet so ryu didn't explode
I think it possible that murai probably saved ryu to use him for his plan but the way the scene is set up it strongly suggests that ryu did die and the falcon did revive ryu. Since the fires have died out ryu was deafinetly out there for a while and im not sure how long he could survive with two major wounds but it wouldn't be long. espeacillay when japanese sword fights are suppose to be one hit kill fights and he got 2. Since the falcon carries great meaning to their clan I think it might be a gurdian spirit. I mainly think this becuase towards the end it flys away with ryu while he teleports also it looks like its following him so I don't think it part of the technique and they purposely kept how ryu survived ambiguous. Also ryu says his strength comes from training so I don't think if he has many superpowers. and we don't know how fast he recovered becuase no clues are given between the time of the atk and when he's getting ready to go to vigoor. also the dragon sword is pretty normal with out the eye aside from being really sharp so I don't think it would have magical protective powers

lol looking back original ng had pretty decent story for a video game.feel bad for trashing it but that was due to connection from original to sequel. Amazing what a failure part 2 was story wise

if ryu had true dragon sword againts doku with dark blade it be fair and he would win since he's more motivated to kill him. motivation is what probably change the outcome in rematch.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MurderousJohnny,

well, I defeated Doku in Chapter 2 the third time playing NGS 1, and I used the code to unlock the collector's edition missions and defeated Doku using Rachel.

at first I was like, yeah Ryu will have no problems defeating Doku no matter what he uses, but it just depends on the person who plays the game. I say this because in the story Rachel says she couldn't defeat Doku, and this is proven by how easily Doku knoks her out with a slap. But in the mission, I could defeat Doku using Rachel quite easily.

but Doku's moves are one of the easier to predict.
I think the Kitetsu is actually more dangerous than the Dark Dragon, since he can throw it and use it to suck life force out of you, while he can't do that with the Dark Dragon. Kitetsu is also faster which is essential to fight a ninja.

the falcon is just weird, at first I thought the falcon belonged to Murai.
Does the Falcon costume in NGS 2 have anything to do with that?

hayabusa is japanese for falcon so costume is reference to their clan name

No offence Toshiro but, what are you talking about?:/
I am not referring to actual in-gameplay, as I said before that cutscenes are a fact.
Your explanation is going like so: In Devil May Cry cutscenes, Dante cannot die, but in-gameplay he can die. I am not talking about how strong Doku is in-gameplay. I'm talking about a particular scene. Even though you haven't played Ninja Gaiden1/Black, I'm still talking about the first encounter with Doku vs Ryu for the first time. When the cutscene rolls, Doku kills Ryu. So that's the debate right there which is if Doku killed ryu or merely defeated him. You'll see a CG after the fight that shows Ryu lying on the floor and a bird watching him.

So you need to give your explanation again Tomshiro Toshiro:P


Although I could expand the discussion about this:

I say this because in the story Rachel says she couldn't defeat Doku, and this is proven by how easily Doku knoks her out with a slap. Team NINJA needs to explain just how strong Rachel is! In-game she is definitely stronger than Ryu. Perhaps we could say Rachel could be stronger than Doku but she can't defeat him since she can't predict Doku's moves and she's also slower than Doku.

I think the Kitetsu is actually more dangerous than the Dark Dragon, since he can throw it and use it to suck life force out of you, while he can't do that with the Dark Dragon.Just like what Johnny said, Dark Dragon wasn't at its strongest peak. Dark Dragon is still stronger than Kitestu. Once again, you are talking about fiction in-gamet. Even though you are comparing them in-gameplay, you should still know that Dark Dragon Blade is stronger. 2 Ultimate Techniques will kill a berserker Also Dark Dragon Blade weights less than Dabilahro and it does same damage just like the Dabilahro. (how do you prounce it: Da-be-la-hoe:P)



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Excellent words Johnny.
Is that what it's called? Cinematic device or just device? Yea the superman phonebook was a bad example, but you have to admit, it is sort of like a device:P

the falcon did revive ryu. Since the fires have died out ryu was deafinetly out there for a while and im not sure how long he could survive with two major wounds but it wouldn't be long. espeacillay when japanese sword fights are suppose to be one hit kill fights and he got 2. Since the falcon carries great meaning to their clan I think it might be a gurdian spirit. I mainly think this becuase towards the end it flys away with ryu while he teleports also it looks like its following him so I don't think it part of the technique and they purposely kept how ryu survived ambiguous.
Well, we have no evidence that the Falcon revived Ryu, just like you said. The falcon is a guardian spirit, that always watches over what goes on in the Hayabusa village. I really don't think the falcon carries any meaning other than their name Hayabusa. But I would say the bird didn't fly away with Ryu, it just went off on its own.

About the fire, Dragon Sword has the spirit of the Dragon Lineage, like I said before, Ryu has the blood of the Dragon Lineage in him so bones of Dragon Sword+blood of Dragon Swords are connected together, that opposes evil harms, especially the Black Dragons. Dark Dragon Blade was craved out of the bones of the Black Dragons, during the ancient wars, Dragon Lineage and Black Dragons fought.
So there is a big meaning to the electric that appeared on Ryu's back. In the end, Ryu was saved because he had the blood of Dragon Lineage (remember that other Ninjas Doku killed immediately died once struck). Ryu just lied on the floor healing while the fire burned out. Who knows, Muria or Ayane must have helped him.


Also ryu says his strength comes from training so I don't think if he has many superpowers. and we don't know how fast he recovered becuase no clues are given between the time of the atk and when he's getting ready to go to vigoor.
I wouldn't qualify that as fact for Ryu being so strong because his strength comes from trainning:/

Have you seen the way he does the Cremator with the Virgooria Flails? No human can never do that in real life. If you look at how a regular martial artist swings a Nunchunk . If this guy holding the nunchuku swings it to the right, putting both hands in opposite direction, this is how the Cremator works. Imagine doing that signature move 2x faster, the results will be a cremator. (it's really hard to explain, but if you've seen Ninjas, Bruce Lee use the Nunchunk, you'll know what I'm talking about)

Even though we can't give in-game as a point, Ryu uses ninpo attacks and that ninpo move (rock carrying him) he used to fight Virgoor Empire.


Also don't forget Ryu's title: Modern Day Super Ninja. If you are a super ninja that is superior over other regular ninjas, your strength can never come with just training alone. It's just the training that made Ryu so good with arsenals of weapons, surviving and performing ninja like moves. But his powers comes from being a Dragon Lineage.




if ryu had true dragon sword againts doku with dark blade it be fair and he would win since he's more motivated to kill him. motivation is what probably change the outcome in rematch.Of course he'll win, Ryu shattered the Dark Dragon Blade to pieces with the True Dragon Sword. But that is not the question.

Will Ryu still be able to defeat Doku second time if Doku used the Dark Dragon Blade again? In the stadium arena where Doku held Rachel Captive.

ooohh ho-oh, I just want to play NGS1 again and kill everything with the Dark Dragon UT, it's so fun!!!