Tecmo Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Game Forums  Hop To Forums  Ninja Gaiden    Ninja Versus thoughts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Ninja Versus thoughts
 Login/Join
 
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted
quote:
Ninja Versus Mode
I've agreed and so did others saying that a Versus mode will not work for a strategic game like Ninja Gaiden. Basically all you can do to win over is block, block, counter, flying swallow or Izuna Drop your opponent. We've seen how Evil Ryu fights with you, he blocks most of the time and counters and you have to use the environment while waiting for an opening to strike.

The reason why I've changed my mind is because I don't want to ignore opportunities and features that would indefinitely make the game better by improvising. Why should Ninja Gaiden be limited to the same features and ignore 1 feature to essentially make it better? Sure if Versus mode may not work out as balanced as visualised, then there must be an alternate way to balance it instead of practically ignoring such a good feature.

RECTIFY:
In order to balance the issue of the Ninja Versus mode so it can be playable to veterans, intermediates and in Newbies. The Ninja Versus mode will work similar to Resident Evil 5's- Versus. Basically one player can be Ayane while the second player plays as Ryu for an example. There will be enemies on screen trying to kill both Players. Players can play the game three ways:
1. Eliminate one and other from the start of the battle and the remaining player can take of the rest of the enemies.
2. Both players work together to finish off all enemies and both players must stand off against one another and someone must be the last man standing. The reason for both players working together is that; they can avoid getting overpowered by the enemies A.Is.
3. Both players use the enemies to their advantage- *player 1 is getting chased by Berserker Fiends, *player 1 runs next to **player 2 and Bersekers changes their target towards **player 2 instead. In the end both players will fight one another while also trying to fend off the enemies.

TYPE OF GAME MODES
How can a player host a game or a player join a host? I'll suggest possible ways a player can join a hosted match or how a Ninja Versus should play like:

-1. User Versus- We can say this would allow a user enemy generator, that basically allows the host to spawn any enemies on screen that both players must overcome. X-Men Wolverine's Origin and God of War 3 had this feature. About this particular feature; I am not very fond of it because you are training and challenging yourself, rather than trying to beat the developer's challenge. With this feature, it would work perfectly for a Versus mode. I can make Berserkers respawn 10 times until one of the players is defeated by their opponent, this will give me a challenge in tackling berserkers and also my opponent. HOWEVER it can make things harder for my opponent because berserkers are easy to dispatch while my opponent will have difficutlties dealing with them.

-2. Everlasting Mode (Survival) Duel: Basically a survival mode that pitches 2 players head to head and must handle random infinite respawing enemies. Like the whole purpose of this mode is Ninja Versus, the last standing ninja wins. Therefore 2 players will fight in an area full of respawning enemies, until one player dies either by the ends of an enemy or by the player, the surviving player will automatically be the winner and match will end.

The positive for this feature means a dynamic gameplay and players will be forced to constantly rethink their strategies because of random enemies that respawn while dealing with their opponent. For an instance ninjas were spawned; I would know this is my chance to advance to my opponent and deal with him while my opponent is busy killing the lesser ninjas. Once a few ninjas are disregarded, fiend cats will spawn and I must rethink my plan because the cat fiends are cunning and can catch up with me while I run towards my opponent.

Not only will this be a dynamic strategic changer but will give Ninja dogs and edge over Master ninja players. Then again Master Ninja players would find it easy if Ninja Dog players cannot handle the random enemies on screen and may eventually die before the master ninja player gets to him.

-3. Duel Missions- Basically missions set by the developers and players can battle in any stage. This will be the most balanced game type because players would know their individual skills and what sort of mission they can play in to battle against their rivals.
Think of Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2's Team Missions; you have Acolyte Missions, Warrior Missions, Mentor Missions, Master Ninja Missions and Ultimate Ninja Missions. Each missions have different levels and types of enemies that spawns.

Now think of Duel Missions-
(Master Ninja- Mission 3) Defeat your adversary while dealing with the fiend bosses.
Only master ninja players can play this mission. Alexia who is the first boss will approach both players while both players are trying to attack one and other. Which ever players falls first is the loser and match ends.
Once again, like I said above players can play the game 3 different ways.
They can chose to eliminate one another as soon as the match starts, work co-op and defeat all bosses so that both can face off in the end; or both players use the bosses as their advantage.

Another example.
(Ultimate Ninja- Mission 3) Defeat your adversary while dealing with the Giant Statues.
1. Kill each other from start
2. work together until bosses are dead and stand against one and other
or
3. use the statues as your advantage!



what are your thoughts on having Ninja Versus mode in Ninja Gaiden (3)?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: xino,



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
Posted Hide Post
there seems to be a huge problem with this versus thing.

but it's not that complicated really.

the suggestion above is good, but I have an idea which may possibly improve it.
Make it a survival, or time trial, as in, the two players have a clear wall (or fence so that you can see across it) in between them.

survival mode: hold off the hordes of enemies longer than the other player

time trial: defeat more enemies than the other player within a set time

Highscore mode: travel the longest distance without dying (something similar to GoW II 's spiral chamber) or even harder, don't get hit once.

now for the versus mode that everyone wants.

you know how in NGS 1, you had to collect scrolls to do Izuna drop, and flying swallow?

what if those scrolls were disabled during versus mode, and we had te solely rely on our weapon level, techniques, and countering skills.

GREAT IDEA!

everyone says NGS2 was too easy right?
u know why it was easy? cuz we just had to press buttons in the correct order. Now what if we had to time the buttons as well? like in some other games, if not timed correctly (just bashing buttons) the technique will stop. (can't name an example right out of the top of my head)
 
Posts: 299 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
I love your Survival Mode idea but it seems more like competition rather than battling each other. It's also like rivalry, so instead of working cooperative together, you are being competitive.
I wouldn't mind for this idea man.

The Time Trial mode sounds nice too! Not only does it put you under pressure but also feels like Ninja Gaiden Black's karma time challenge.


Like I said before about the original versus mode that wouldn't be balanced. Even though you removed the armlets, scrolls etc. Players would still abuse the Block button to achieve countering.

-I will allow you to advance towards me, attack all you want and I will constantly block while countering you multiple times until you die. That's the cheap thing about it.-

It's also the method Soul Calibur 4 uses, the Soul Crush to prevent people from spamming block button, which even makes the game more broken O_o.


yo read my comment again, I updated it and added more details!



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
Posted Hide Post
I don't know about you all, but my countering sucks, I try that on Evil Ryu's and it only works half the time, the other time I just get my a$$ whooped.

besides, (even though difficult) you can counter a counter, and it sometimes amuses me. =)

there are attacks that can't be blocked.

lets say I swing a Dabilahro (I don't like the NGS 2 version), you can block it with a Katana, right? but if I jump up and slam the thing on ur head, ur not so lucky. This is when you dodge, letting ur guard down and being forced to rely on a different technique.

there are even grab attacks, with these, you are forced to get out of the way

I don't know why do you think blocking will make this not work, I mean, EVEN A BLACK SPIDER NINJA KNOWS HOW TO DEAL WITH A BLOCK SPAMMER!
 
Posts: 299 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
lol....ok then let's play it your way.
If a user blocks, attacker can guillotine throw the user.
if the attacker is not patient and can't block, the users attack will land successfully on attacker.

But what about Flying Swallow eh?
You do know if the attacker is chasing a user, user can easily 360 o turn back and flying swallow the attacker.

Or how about environmental attacks? such as the user running up the wall and slamming down the attacker.

Wind running too; if you get wind runned you'll get stunt for a second.

Not to mention people who use shurikens to stun+attack.
If you get struck by a shuriken during an attack or what ever stance, you'll lose focus. Even if you try running; if a shuriken lands on you, you'll stop for a second.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
Posted Hide Post
well, you're putting guillotine and flying swallow in the equation again, we don't want those attacks available on the versus mode.

and 360 is an excellent attack when being chased, it takes time to execute and will not always reach the attacker. it's fair.

Wall attacks aren't that simple, they also take time, and while wall running, a single shuriken can make you fall off. But they are strong if successful.

if a person is good enough to wind run without getting uppercut, then good for them, they successfully executed a legal technique.

haven't Evil Ryu's taught u anything? they will throw shurikens whenever possible, but does that ever make you lose to them? it's just a tiny distraction, that even if overused, would not affect the fight a whole bunch.
 
Posts: 299 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
no it's because I can wall spam evil ryu easy.

well if flying swallow and guillotine throw were removed, wouldn't that purposely limit the movesets to be used in the game and eventually make the game a spam feast repetitive game?

Would it even be fair with a fight- Ryu vs Ayane (fast but weak attacks), Ryu vs Rachel (slow but powerful attack) or Ryu vs Momiji (spamming the Jump+Square or Jump+Triangle and also mid slow on attacks)? all girls cannot wind run!


I mean this ninja gaiden isn't the type of game you do 1 on 1 versus battle with just 1 limited character against another human. If it's a Beat Em Up style then it can be acceptable.

You are just comparing Evil Ryu (AI) to a versus game but have forgotten that humans players very differently to A.I. That is exactly what most people think of Versus mode.

If you battle against human, they think differently and similar to you but playing against A.I will try to outsmart and test you. Humans would always want to find the best, easy or cheap way to win which ultimately nullifies the battle.

It's like Street Fighter- ken and Ryu. Both will keep pulling off hadoken, shoryuken and hurricane kick. They are identical because they studied Shotokan. Which brings us to NInja Gaiden, 2 Ryus doing same endless repetitive moves:/


hell I wouldn't mind a Player vs Player so as long as Team NINJA can balance and make it work. Because I just can't imagine a player vs player working right that.


And I don't even think you read the updated first post:/ You are going on about unbalanced player vs player without talking about player vs player vs A.Is.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
Posted Hide Post
i haven't read what yall wrote. Too much to read and I feel like posting now. I can't see a ninja gaiden versus mode that isn't broken in some way. But I wouldn't expect it to be balanced anyway since games that are focused on multiplayer still manage to f-up balanceing issues. But it would still be fun and I would love to see a vs mode. Also it doesn't have to be a actual fight they could just have a time attack vs mode or something similar.
 
Posts: 83 | Location: ny | Registered: October 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
if you haven't read all that I wrote then what is the point in posting your opinion about your thoughts on it?

you do know if you are a game designer or part of a development team, you have to make your voice clear and more understandable.

If I say: "add Ninja Versus to Ninja Gaiden (3)", what would the team think of? You need to go in-depth detail on your idea.
That is why I gave more detail to the reason why Ninja Versus CAN actually work.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
Posted Hide Post
my ideas of the Time Trial and Survival mode got accepted, so I'm happy.

I'll leave any other tweaks and options up to Xino.
 
Posts: 299 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
Posted Hide Post
@ xino I skim read what you wrote. And it sounded pretty generic and felt I didn't need to read it. Also forums can be used to write opinions. I don't need to completely understand what everyone else wrote to write what I feel on the subject smat as. And since apparently I wasn't clear enough I'll try better. It's my opinion that if tecmo where to make a one on one vs mode where players kill each other or a mode where players fight for most kills/points it would be broken as long as they had different characters to choose from. I also think team ninja would be aware of this and wouldn't care since it wouldn't be their main focus anyway or they just don't care as long as game is fun. There are other games that do the same thing ex smash bro melee(high level marth players), resident evil 5(wesker), pokemon(ou tier), marvel vs capcom 2(pretty much all the marvel characters raped capcom characters), etc. I would still enjoy a vs mode because it sounds fun. Even if it where broken I wouldn't care because I wouldn't expect more any ways.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MurderousJohnny,
 
Posts: 83 | Location: ny | Registered: October 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
ok...so forums are just there for people to write all about their opinions right...and forums never contain anything concrete or legit but full of opinions.

if everything is about your opinion...then I wouldn't bother communicating with you because you would be clearly wasting my time.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
Posted Hide Post
Xino lol you enjoy online fighting don't you. I was just saying that's one of the uses of forums.I didn't mean it was a opinion thing only. I don't even get why you'd even question a random post directed at no one unless you actually had a legit comment on what I wrote. Omg I can't believe I'm explaining this. Also assuming tecmo reads the forum every once in a while I would like my opinion to be heard since I will likely be buying their product.
 
Posts: 83 | Location: ny | Registered: October 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
i don't like fighting but I constantly get into fights in forum and that's the reason why I hate contributing to them, especially if the forums does not contain mature members.

i don't get it...if your post is directed at nobody and you expect no reply. Seriously what is the point of commenting? I mean you said it yourself forums are made up of opinions, so if a next guy as a beef with your comment, he would voice out his opinion therefore there's nothing you can do about it. If you wanna be left alone, don't comment.

unless you actually had a legit comment on what I wrote. lol...wat? Confused

Also assuming tecmo reads the forum every once in a while I would like my opinion to be heard since I will likely be buying their product.
and for the last time...yes Tecmo do read this boards.

and even if your comment gets read, it may not be implemented in Team NINJA's game because you never thought out wide why it may work or may not!

That is the problem with most fans and why their ideas do not get used because they come up with the same cliched list:
*i want evil ryu
*I want costumes
*I want kasumi playable
*I want this and that

Sure all that may be granted but as a game designer you have to think of limitations and time consumptions.

For an example, I already thought about why a Ninja Versus would work, giving out the principles the players can take and the sort of modes players can choose. Too bad both of you cannot read a large sum of post because you are not used to reading large notes, also signifies you do not read Newspapers.

If Team NINJA were to look at my idea, they'll say "wow this person already thought about the problems and solution". Though it's up to them to decide if they want to make it.


and what versus mode idea did you come up with?



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
Posted Hide Post
I'm gonna let you know right now why you get into fights online because its apparent you don't realize your own short comings. You are a pretentious individual. This is not your fault. I get that way with anime and books sometimes. Having grown up being into a bunch a nerdy stuff comicbooks, video game ,yugioh, anime, books etc. I've met many people like you. People who confuse their own fandom with intelligence. I personally don't respect people like that because having been a competitive individual it’s my personal experience that those type usually suck or are mediocre at their hobby. Anyway don't call people immature just because you think the time you spent on something gives you some sort of authoritive status on all things relating to that topic.

"Sure all that may be granted but as a game designer you have to think of limitations and time consumptions.”- Xino
That right there is why I think a vs mode would be broken, because tecmo wouldn't spend the time to make it balanced. Also I have thought about. I just don't think I need a page to explain. I've play enough multiplayer games to let me know that creating a balance game isn't easy and I’m sure the people at tecmo already know that. And I don't think tecmo would focus on making the vs mode balanced. Especially with a game like ninja gaiden. It'd be just like resident evil five where having characters with different abilities leads to broken game play. Even a better example I reached top 10 on multiple leader boards for ngsigma 2 missions in the first month just because my partner abused Rachael’s ut. The only reason he even carried my ass is because I out scored him on small map where Rachael ut wasn’t as effective as ryu. Unless they do something like capcom (which will never happen)did to solve their balancing issues for sft4 by inviting the top street fighters players in the world to give them input since they had deeper understanding of the gameplay then the game designers themselves . So I don't think any kind of brain storming can solve the balancing issues. As for actual ideas for vs mode. Dude they only have two options man vs man or (man vs cpu) vs ( man vs cpu). Everything else would just be game mechanics which I think would be pointless to spend excessive time on since it’s gonna be broken regardless.
"I don't get it...if your post is directed at nobody and you expect no reply. Seriously what is the point of commenting?" -xino
So if tecmo reads this I want them to know that me a typical fan would like a vs mode...I thought my post conveyed this but I guess not.

"unless you actually had a legit comment on what I wrote. lol...wat? Confused"
Your first reply was basically you b-itch-in about me and added noting to the topic. You can go back and reinterpret for me if you want but all I got from your reply was that according to you my post needed re-working. Give me the link to the tecmo rubric on forum posting please so I can work on any of my future post.
 
Posts: 83 | Location: ny | Registered: October 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
ahhh....I'm gonna be straight with this and wouldn't waste time!

Muderjohnny...I remember you, I owned you back when you acted naive complaining about no blood in Sigma 2. You left the forum, and now you've come back from living under the rock (finally knew NG3 news while everyone knew months ago).

You made a comment saying you ignored my post and said Versus mode would not work without reading my post. I commented back saying what's the point in posting if you didn't read my comment?

HENCE what are your thoughts on having Ninja Versus mode in Ninja Gaiden (3)? if you didn't read the whole quote then YOU SHOULDN'T COMMENT! If you did comment then you are commenting on a flawed opinion that has nothing to do with the quote!

You found my post offensive and wanted to pick a fight with me, reason why you said "I always get into a fight".

Now you want to start a fight, but I wouldn't fight but own you straight on!

Second, I know you...you've always argued with members here and WORST going on about how you go jugging outside, you can walk a mile and everyone is fat behind their pc. Unless I have you confused with someone baring the same name resemblance.

And finally...gtfo and go back to living under your rock, because I didn't waste my time reading your 3 paragraph bullsh.
"ahhh....I'm gonna be straight with this and wouldn't waste time!"

it hurts doesn't it? not to read someone's comment but talk sh* back which as nothing to do with that person's comment.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tina
Posted Hide Post
TROLL ALERT!!!

KRATOS WILL BE IN MORTAL KOMBAT 9!!!


hmmm... what if they put Ryu in instead? =P
 
Posts: 299 | Registered: September 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
lol....it's great Kratos is in MK.

Ryu should be in Soul Calibur because he uses the Dragon Sword.
Kratos previously being in SC Legends was just a selling tool.


It would be cool if Samus was in Dead or Alive Dimensions which would be inconsistent, unless she fights in her Zero Suit.



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Helena
Posted Hide Post
LMAO @ xino . I'm done too dude.
P.s you've never owned me =P
 
Posts: 83 | Location: ny | Registered: October 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ryu
Picture of xino
Posted Hide Post
so why did you leave previously?



H.A.T.E.R.S- Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Success
TKPlayers|Ninja Gaiden 4 blogspot
 
Posts: 1777 | Location: London | Registered: July 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

    Tecmo Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Game Forums  Hop To Forums  Ninja Gaiden    Ninja Versus thoughts

© 2004 Tecmo Inc. All Rights Reserved.