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Ayane |
Ever since Sigma 2 came out which is a drasticly different game from NG2, fans have discussed what they liked about in each game and I am sure we are all glad Hayashi takes the violence back along with other key elements from previous games that define the NG games, but the new elements added to the gameplay slowed the pace of the combat and kills what makes ninja gaiden special.
back in the IGN interview, Hayashi said "In Ninja Gaiden III, you're going to experience something new regarding the feeling of cutting people." A lot of players for the 3D NG series feared this means there will be Button Prompts, and in E3 gameplay videos I am disappointed to find out we were right. A good number of veterans of the game started calling this game Ninja of War and whine about it copying God of War for the heavily Button Prompt dependent combat. I hope Hayashi can separate Ninja Gaiden from other games and make it unique in its own way because it doesn't need elements from other games to make it better If possible, please let us turn off Button Prompts against normal enemies, allow us to perform the clean and pure freeflow combat that we know and love from previous games. We want a combat experience that's fast and furious, not plagued by Button Prompt slowdowns. We are totally cool if there are Button Prompt in the game if it's optional, as in we can turn it off in the options screen. ======= Several things about the Button Prompts that worries me, the video starting at 1:00 mark, http://www.gametrailers.com/vi...-ninja-gaiden/714948 - Normally in action game, Button Prompt is reserved for BOSS finisher move, but in this game you do it to every single CANNON FODDER enemy, is it necessary? Even Ninja Blade, a failed Ninja Gaiden wanna be knows only to add Button Prompt prompts for bosses, not average enemies - Notice the amount of button prompts popped up in those few seconds, notice that you are doing this to almost every CANNON FODDER, imagine having to repeat this throughout the entire game, button prompt every time you try to do a combo, take my word, this will get stale FAST. - Button Prompt decimates the enemies and send them to the floor unable to fight back, unlike Sigma 2 where enemies can still combo and suicide bomb you. This is overpowered. - Can you feel the freeflow combat that you experience in previous NG games when you watch the above video? Normally you fight one enemy to the next non-stop, but now the Button Prompt will interrupt your pace and slow down your combat flow, again, these Button Prompt are for average joe enemies, not even mid-bosses. - WE STILL HAVE OBLITERATIONS! The obliteration finishers from NG2 and NGS2 are still in the game. You use them for decimated enemies. So why do we still need Button Prompt? isn't the point of Button Prompt to finish off the enemies and -1 for the enemy team? ======= The key component to Ninja Gaiden 3D action series has always been the combo system, but as shown in the E3 gameplay videos, there were no combos at all, all we do is slash slash Button Prompt, and enemy dies. We used to be able to slash slash, shuriken, headstool jump to their back and keep the combo going, but now the Button Prompt will disrupt the combo rythem and slow things down. Combo lovers will not respond well to this. There goes the free styling Here's another quote from the IGN interview "Yosuke says it won't be so easy to cut down your enemies this time around. In Ninja Gaiden III, players will actually experience a type of physical resistance when cutting through an enemy." Well it looks pretty damn easy how he mauls down the entire team of soldiers with those Button Prompt prompts. light hard Button Prompt prompt, one down, square triangle Button Prompt prompt, another one. Hell even guillotine throw kills instantly (and it still have Button Prompt prompts lol) It's demo walkthrough so obviously he is playing in alcolyte mode with easy enemies, but enemies were never this easy to kill even in easy mode. it usually takes more more than 3 hits to kill an enemy, now you can down them with 2 weak slash plus a Button Prompt, even if it's just easy mode. ======= Now the primary concern from previous games have always been the camera, and in this game the camera is still sticking way too close to ryu, same as before, this prevents the players from seeing incoming missles and projectile attacks until it's too late. I know this is meant to make the player feel the presence of ryu as he dominates hoards of enemies, but this is only true for hack and slash game. When there are projectile enemies involved, you want to be ready for them so that you don't die from random deaths In Sigma 2, a change is made to werewolves so that they don't throw body parts and they don't jump towards you unless you see them, and incendiary shuriken ninjas also don't stick kunais onto your body when you hold block because it's unfair to get hit by random attacks and die when you don't see them coming. In addition to that the number of enemies on the screen also dramatically reduced to accommodate the camera, which is something I don't understand. Why not pull back the camera and solve this complaint once and for all? =========== To reiterate my point on Button Prompt, Do a search on any major gaming site or google or simply ask around people, a lot of us will complain about the randomness of Button Prompts and how it interrupts the gameplay (in fact lots of times you die from boss battles because you didn't react to a Button Prompt). In addition to that, read posts on Ninja Fortress and Iberians and see how much we are saddened by the addition of Button Prompt. obliteration has been accepted as the correct way doing unintrusive Button Prompt, and there's no point to reinvent the wheel and make a worse one. DON'T COPY THE BAD DESIGN FROM OTHER GAMES. I might sound like I am full of myself, but I, like many others, have walked the path of Master Ninja on every single 3D Ninja Gaiden games since the Xbox age, and I hope my opinion reflect the veterans of the community and that my voice can be heard. Thank you for reading my wall of text This message has been edited. Last edited by: jackass00123, |
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Ryu![]() |
but the new elements added to the gameplay slowed the pace of the combat and kills what makes ninja gaiden special.
Its still NG man. Hayashi said *NG1 was about the seeing how to slash enemies *NG2 was about experiencing what happens after you cut enemies *NG3 will be about feeling how you can slash enemies back in the IGN interview, Hayashi said "In Ninja Gaiden III, you're going to experience something new regarding the feeling of cutting people." A lot of players for the 3D NG series feared this means there will be quick time events, and in E3 gameplay videos I am disappointed to find out we were right. The stage you are playing is Tutorial stage man, it teaches new players how to play the game and get used to the combat system. This is why QTE were prompted each time for a limited time. When playing stage one (london) at Master Ninja, don't expect to see QTE. A good number of veterans of the game started calling this game Ninja of War and whine about it copying God of War for the heavily QTE dependent combat. I hope Hayashi can separate Ninja Gaiden from other games and make it unique in its own way because it doesn't need elements from other games to make it better Sorry but that is wrong, when something is successful with someone else, you would need to use that person's success to make yourself better. You don't gamble with life to create your own, judging if its going to win or fail. If possible, please let us turn off quick time events against normal enemies, allow us to perform the clean and pure freeflow combat that we know and love from previous games. We want a combat experience that's fast and furious, not plagued by QTE slowdowns. We are totally cool if there are QTE in the game if it's optional, as in we can turn it off in the options screen. No need man This is the first stage, a tutorial stage. If you all "ninja gaiden fans" did listen to what Hayahsi said. He said that the Steel on Bone prompts the player a button to press only when you encounter new enemies. After that they disappeared. Please watch the gameplay video 10+ like I've done and see how they designed the game. This is stage one- London When Ryu meets the new enemy who are SWAT Gunners, QTE appears telling player how to finish this SWAT Gunners with Steel on Bone. After that Ryu meets SWAT Shields, who are a new type of enemy, enemies that block more precisely than SWAT Gunners. You need to press Triangle/Y to Steel on Bone them. The final new enemy was SWAT Combatants they have these glowing thing behind their back and to successfully kill them with Steel on Bone, you need to press Square in which Ryu slashes off the glowing yellow acid behind their back. If you observe correctly, after Ryu SoB a new enemy, the QTE does not appear afterwards. QTE will only appear for new enemy, telling you how to finish them. Sure you don't have to press Square for the SWAT Combatants, but pressing Square or Triangle will give off different killing animations. Since you are required to press Triangle to SoB them, pressing Triangle will give off the right brutal killing animation. Watch the gameplay video again and see the QTE only appears once when you encounter new enemies. - Normally in action game, QTE is reserved for BOSS finisher move, but in this game you do it to every single CANNON FODDER enemy, is it necessary? Even Ninja Blade, a failed Ninja Gaiden wanna be knows only to add QTE prompts for bosses, not average enemies Wrong. QTE are created for the purpose of giving players more immersion to the story. Panzaar Dragoon started off the QTE however Shenmue recreated the QTE perfectly. QTE stands for Quick Time Event, it is when an event occurs that you have to push the right button on screen. There are so many games that uses QTE however do not incorporate them correctly in their games. Only few who understands the concept of QTE would implements QTE perfectly in their game. And games that did use QTE perfectly are solely remembered for having QTE in their game- GOW, Resident Evil, Ninja Blade and many more. - Notice the amount of button prompts popped up in those few seconds, notice that you are doing this to almost every CANNON FODDER, imagine having to repeat this throughout the entire game, button prompt every time you try to do a combo, take my word, this will get stale FAST. This is tutorial level 1 to guide newbs. Don't expect QTE when you play Mentor or Master Ninja during level 1. - QTE decimates the enemies and send them to the floor unable to fight back, unlike Sigma 2 where enemies can still combo and suicide bomb you. This is overpowered. You are overacting, watch the video again. SWAT shields do not die by Flying Swallow as the original SWAT Gunners do with 1 hit. Newer and stronger enemies when hit with Flying Swallow will feel pain but will not immediately die. They are only stunned on the floor and slowly get back up. - Can you feel the freeflow combat that you experience in previous NG games when you watch the above video? Normally you fight one enemy to the next non-stop, but now the QTE will interrupt your pace and slow down your combat flow, again, these QTE are for average joe enemies, not even mid-bosses. QTE will ONLY appear everytime you encounter a new enemy. By the time you finish Warrior mode you would have encountered all enemies in the game. And I hope new enemies would appear in Master Ninja. - WE STILL HAVE OBLITERATIONS! The obliteration finishers from NG2 and NGS2 are still in the game. You use them for decimated enemies. So why do we still need QTE? isn't the point of QTE to finish off the enemies and -1 for the enemy team? This game is not designed on Obliteration Technique. It is based on the emphasis of cutting an enemy and experiencing that cutting. Its best if you play the game without judging too quick. The key component to Ninja Gaiden 3D action series has always been the combo system, but as shown in the E3 gameplay videos, there were no combos at all, all we do is slash slash QTE, and enemy dies. We used to be able to slash slash, shuriken, headstool jump to their back and keep the combo going, but now the QTE will disrupt the combo rythem and slow things down. Combo lovers will not respond well to this. There goes the free styling lol wow man. All these people claim they are NG fans but why is it I'm the only person who saw NG combat still intact with this game!? O_O Maybe I should make a video to point out why NG3 is NG in this new game so people can stop losing faith. Well it looks pretty damn easy how he mauls down the entire team of soldiers with those QTE prompts. light hard QTE prompt, one down, square triangle QTE prompt, another one. Hell even guillotine throw kills instantly (and it still have QTE prompts lol) he's playing on Warrior mode man. Enemies die quickly in Normal mode. It's demo walkthrough so obviously he is playing in alcolyte mode with easy enemies, but enemies were never this easy to kill even in easy mode. it usually takes more more than 3 hits to kill an enemy, now you can down them with 2 weak slash plus a QTE, even if it's just easy mode. Easy mode would give people who find NG too difficult to finally beat the game. Why are you worried about Acolyte mode man? you should be gunning for Mentor and Master Ninja. Now the primary concern from previous games have always been the camera, and in this game the camera is still sticking way too close to ryu, same as before, this prevents the players from seeing incoming missles and projectile attacks until it's too late. I know this is meant to make the player feel the presence of ryu as he dominates hoards of enemies, but this is only true for hack and slash game. When there are projectile enemies involved, you want to be ready for them so that you don't die from random deaths :/ the problem with NG's camera was that the camera was too close to Ryu. They fixed it in Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 by zooming out the camera further away from the character. A lot of people dislike this. And now they went back to original Ninja Gaiden camera which moves steady than before and people are still complaining!? O_o I understand your comment about pulling the camera away to solve the Lycans throwing their bodyparts to you. However NG3 will not go to NG2 cheap route whereas enemies throw projectiles at you off screen. NG3 will obviously have it but will not bombard players. To reiterate my point on QTE, Do a search on any major gaming site or google or simply ask around people, a lot of us will complain about the randomness of quick time events and how it interrupts the gameplay (in fact lots of times you die from boss battles because you didn't react to a QTE). Sorry...only new generation gamers who never experienced Shenmue hate QTE. Shenmue was so great with it's QTE that eventually spawned other games using its successful reinvented QTE. In addition to that, read posts on Ninja Fortress and Iberians and see how much we are saddened by the addition of QTE. I would advise users here not to visit that immature place. obliteration has been accepted as the correct way doing unintrusive QTE, and there's no point to reinvent the wheel and make a worse one. DON'T COPY THE BAD DESIGN FROM OTHER GAMES.that is your opinion man. I might sound like I am full of myself, but I, like many others, have walked the path of Master Ninja on every single 3D Ninja Gaiden games since the Xbox age, and I hope my opinion reflect the veterans of the community and that my voice can be heard. Thank you for reading my wall of text no you are not full of yourself, you just don't know what you are talking about. You were warned before by Hayashi that this NG3 will play different. You all watched the video and saw it didn't play like the inferior NG2 (which many IW claims is the better version), so you all threw a fitting and ignored the gameplay facts from the video what makes it NG. I will make the video to calm everybody down and to make Team NINJA continue their making on this amazing game. |
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Ayane |
In addition to that, read posts on Ninja Fortress and Iberians and see how much we are saddened by the addition of QTE.
I would advise users here not to visit that immature place. This coming from the only guy that chase every Ninja Gaiden 3 topic on these major boards and reply to them with loads of text. Remember this guy's user name when you roam the more dedicated Ninja Gaiden forums because his name will be the 1st guy white-knighting team ninja's decisions on Ninja Gaiden 3. Good Lord, can't believe any one would call Ninja Fortress and Iberians "immature", even Ninja Dog players wouldn't dare to make such senseless comment. This message has been edited. Last edited by: jackass00123, |
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Ryu![]() |
phsss...
whatever if you wanna start a fight here. You've come to the wrong place because I would just add you to my block list. I chase every topic here? for your information I'm the only person here keeping this board alive with my constant update. Without me I don't even think you would dare step a foot on this board to complain about nG3. I will defend NG3 because I know what good game designing is. You yourself is just a regular gamer who play games to criticise. Every single update NG gets, its nothing but complaining and moaning from you lot. They can never satisfy you all. If you are going to completely ignore all my comments and choose to only hand pick a part that says the truth and irritates you. Then by all means you do want to pick a fight and argue. |
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Ayane |
You'd have to post videos and tell me where in Shenmue combat system are the QTE involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEQEOdUg7g0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6hpAmAJ35o&t=2m26 as far as I can see, it's open world RPG game, the close quarter combat never had a single QTE element, even the fight cutscenes come in by itself uninterrupted in the 2nd video. the character interactions were heavily dependent on QTE, but when you needed to pump your adrenaline in combat, game dev's know better than to stick things where it doesn't belong. I would even go as far to say God of War QTE is still vastly superior than Ninja Gaiden 3's QTE because they don't pop up during combos against normal enemies until they are down for finisher, the prompts never got in the way. I have to admit my knowledge in God of War is indeed limited, but unless you can point to me a fight where kratos fight against normal enemies and he slash slash twice and QTE prompts zooms in and slows everything down, I believe I will still enjoy God of War more than Ninja Gaiden 3. again I have no problem with boss finishers QTE if the button prompts are consistent and not random and don't regenerate enemies you spent an hour to kill if you miss one QTE. no problem with cinematic QTE either if they are done right. |
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Ryu![]() |
lol...i rest my case.
you don't even know what QTE really is, much like many others Like I said, anybody who played Shenmue would love QTE and people who never played Shenmue will dislike QTE. There's no point in me pointing out the QTE in shenmue because you're not gonna bother about it since you dislike QTE, therefore what is the point? O_o Gameplay analysis QTE in NG3 are limited and only available for new comers and in Acolyte+Warrior mode. |
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Ayane |
lol you didn't even read. SHENMUE DIDN'T USE QTE in COMBAT SYSTEM, I even gave you video proof to see how you would respond, and you proved to be just another elitist with that "oh you didn't play, you are not in my league to understand what I am saying". this doesn't work when facts don't back you up.
if you need to resort to fallacy instead of addressing the facts I present to you, how do you expect me even spend effort reading your post? I did my research, and you don't even have the capacity to read and see what I found, I totally picture you going "herp shenmue no que wha fail derp" This message has been edited. Last edited by: jackass00123, |
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Ryu![]() |
if you want me to prove you wrong and slam you be my guess.
QTE stands for Quick Time Event. It mostly happens during cutscene, it is a sequence that gives a cinematic immersive experience. Games never have QTE during combat, even if they do it is not QTE. QTE can never be used during real time combat or gameplay. It was only used by the first game that created QTE which was Panzaar Dragoon. Shenmue helped reinvent QTE by incorporating it as a cutscene segment. Many other games adapted to QTE, some executed it right while others didn't. Itagaki was right about QTE showing a big button on screen is terrible, which is basically pointless and Ninja Theory were on fault with that. GOW 3 manages to avoid that problem, in fact GOW 3 is the game that uses QTE perfectly. Other games that did not pull of QTE right: Dante's Inferno, Knights Contract, Lost Planet 2 When fighting during a game and if a button prompts up, that is not QTE. QTE gives off a different experience in gaming, a more immersive and cinematic experience. There's no way you can have full control of your body and be able to pull of real time QTE. It is not possible. The only game that manages to use QTE real time during gameplay is Heavy Rain. In fact Heavy Rain's gameplay is entirely made up off cutscenes and QTE. So I really cannot class that as having real time combat QTE. Because when QTE starts, the characters are locked and you do not have full control of them. Then we have Ninja Blade which produces a cinematic QTE experience. During combat you can't use QTE however you can only use it during QTE sequences. QTE like I said earlier is an event in game, it is not something you can do in real time. Basically for QTE to work is basically a scripted event. Its sort of like saying Yes or No. Take Resident Evil 4 for an example (a game that nailed QTE right) Yes- if you pushed the right button during QTE prompt Leon will dodge the rock falling on his head. No- if you pushed the wrong button during QTE prompt Rock will land on Leon's head killing him. QTE event is all about right and wrong choices, everytime you fail a QTE, the game must make sure the player fails that event or suffers consequences. Now that the above is cleared up. QTE cannot be used during real time combat. Ninja Gaiden 3 does not have real time combat QTE. Its basically a tutorial level that teaches newbs how to play NG so that they don't keep dying. After stage 1 the QTE will not appear. The same button you press can be done without QTE. Like I said before QTE cannot be used during real time combat, it is an event therefore Ninja Gaiden 3 does not use QTE during combat. it only uses QTE when enemies grab you during Assassination or when trucks at thrown at you. But I highly doubt it the QTE will happen in further stages. Because level 1 teaches the player on the basics what to expect in the rest of the level. You don't know what QTE is, Shenmue never had QTE in combat because QTE cannot be used in combat! QTE is an event, a scripted event based on users input that gives off a right and wrong. Hence the title Quick Time Event. People like you only think of QTE- as a button that appears on screen:/ I guess at the beginning of Ninja Gaiden 2 that shows what button to press, I bet you would count that as a QTE right? To back this statement up, people are complaining about "one button" causes Ryu to kill the opponent. WAIT, don't you press Y to Obliterate an enemy in NG2? Or are you waiting for a button to come up saying PRESS Y so you can class that as a QTE. now your task for today is to research the meaning of QTE. I guess I just proved you wrong like you wanted. People who do not like QTE would not understand the truth concept of QTE. End off! You don't like QTE but you think you know all about it. This is why you are confused with NG3 using QTE during combat. And you did not even watch my proof video why Ninja Gaiden 3 does not uses QTE during real time combat. |
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Ayane |
Ah ok I mistaken button prompt for QTE because button prompt has always been associated with QTE, note taken. this is like mixing up words like "because" and "cause", "should have" and "should of". once the words are widely used in substitution of another, people no longer notice the difference between the 2 words. same could be said for the QTE and button prompt.
I could go back to the 1st post and change QTE to button prompt, but that doesn't change the overall point of the post. and it still that doesn't change the fact that shenmue doesn't use real time button prompt in combat like ninja gaiden 3. if I really want to be technical about this I could talk about "event" in the programming sense like "event-driven programming" which is widely used to deal with hardware inputs then my use of QTE is still in context |
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Ryu![]() |
:/
I don't think you still understand. Quick Time Event- hence the title TIME EVENT, is basically an event. It is a scripted cutscene that happens. During the cutscene Right & Wrong applies, player must press buttons that appears on screen. In fact you can associate QTE with On Rail games however they are still different. Because On Rail drives the player like you are on a train however you have the freedom to move the cursor on screen. QTE is different, you are basically watching a cutscene however you have to push buttons to make characters automatically perform actions. QTE can never be done in real time, or else it wouldn't be called QTE. Quick Time Event- A quick event which is timed, and event that puts the player in a timed scenario to input a timed button screen prompt. It is quick because it happens for a short time. Ninja Gaiden 3 doesn't use QTE. Let me lay out another proof for you. Ninja Gaiden 1- when you battle Murai and both of your sword clashes together, what happens? you are forced to button bash to get the upper hand. This will be the same thing with Ninja Gaiden 3. When you get apprehended by ninjas during Assassin mode, you have to wiggle the controller left/right+button to escape. Resident Evil 4 and VanQuisH uses this and this is not quick time. When the Chainsaw guy tries to saw off Leon's head, an icon will appear prompting the player to wiggle the analogue stick. This is not QTE. When a robot grabs Sam in VanQuisH and you see a red analogue prompting you to wiggle it, that is not QTE. QTE happens in VanQuisH when Sam battles the Argus robot and you see Sam moving all around its body and blowing parts of its body up, that is QTE. As you can see the QTE that happens in NG3 are not QTE. *Sliding under the truck *gliding sorrow onto enemies *getting enemies off your back. They are not QTE, they are tutorial teaching players how to deal with this things when problem arrives in the future. Take Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 for an example with Ayane's storymode. When you proceed to a hall after defeating Lycans for the first time. You will see a bird standing on a gate and if you approach it, an archer will directly hit you with one of the arrows which is unexpected. Now if you were playing that as a tutorial the game would go in slow motion teaching you how to avoid situations/traps like this. This is the same case with NG3. QTE do not have button mappings, they are random unmapped buttons that you need to press. NG3 when buttons appear on screen, they are the buttons you've already mapped. f I really want to be technical about this I could talk about "event" in the programming sense like "event-driven programming" which is widely used to deal with hardware inputs then my use of QTE is still in context are you are programmer? because when you talk about event in game development, it is often linked with scripted events. |
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Tina |
To add to this discussion about QTE: I have extensive gameplay knowledge of god of war, as I've played all 3 so many times.
God of War 2 during the Colossus Fight where you're supposed to press triangle, square, circle, triangle and X for example(not accurate squences) makes kratos slash the face of the creature and causes it to stagger. This is QTE because it's an active event you can't physically control with the analog sticks even though kratos automatically performs the attack. If kratos does not do this, he'll pay consequences either die or being thrown back losing good portion of health. Another Example of quick time event is Uncharted. Uncharted has several instances where if you didn't press circle button , several bricks would have fell onto Drake's head and crushes him. This sorta restarts the event again giving you another shot. Another example was the end of chapter 10 on UC1(uncharted 1) where a bridge supports get's destroyed at the end, and you had to press X to make nathan avoid instant death which has him perform a jump to the next bridge section. Now, having buttons on screen during live gameplay does not equate to QTE, it's just prompts to lets say take a shield off an enemy making him more vulnerable than he was before. Granted these are just a few examples of other games using the system right. Definition: "In video games, a Quick Time Event (QTE) is a method of context-sensitive gameplay in which the player performs actions on the control device shortly after the appearance of an on-screen prompt. It allows for limited control of the game character during cut scenes or cinematic sequences in the game. Failing these segments—either by failing to take the correct action in time, or performing a different action—takes the scene in a different course, often to the player character's death." Naturally there's other places to get the definition, I got it off wikipedia. But this is quick time events, I'd assume what you're referring to is action prompts which is entirely different. |
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Ayane |
as I have said in the last post I am going to use the right term, BUTTON PROMPT.
I have corrected my opening post, not scripted event now. no point dwelling on my mistake. |
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Ryu![]() |
here is something I stumble upon
http://tecmoforums.com/eve/for...=457103005#457103005
I wish there is a scene that shows young Ryu. I hope this can be a sort of proof to people that NG3 stage 1 is not actual QTE, but tutorial |
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Tina |
I just saw a live gameplay footage of ninja gaiden 3 on G4TV and the gameplay is THE SAME as any other ninja gaiden game. There were button prompts like "triangle" which allowed Ryu to cut through bones and what not. That's really the only button prompt i've saw on the demo. So I can confirm(as if I or Xino hasn't already) ninja gaiden 3 WILL NOT HAVE QTE. It's pretty much like any other ninja gaiden: like the example of ryu and Murai swords clashing and you button bashing triangle or whatever button was asked.
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